Why Is School Discipline Considered a Trivial Issue?
From the June 23, 2004 edition of Education Week.
Once again, new research has captured the anguish of teachers and parents over lack of discipline, cooperation, and respect in America’s classrooms. The news in Public Agenda’s recently released study "Teaching Interrupted" is hardly a surprise. Surveys have picked up public concerns about student behavior for years. Unless you believe that parents, teachers, and students nationwide routinely lie on survey after survey, the problem is nearly indisputable.
In this latest study, nearly seven in 10 middle and high school teachers say their own schools have serious problems with students who disrupt classes. Even more say their schools have persistent troublemakers who should be removed from regular schooling. Parents worry that the education of the majority suffers because of a misbehaving few. Surveys of high school students provide the dispiriting details. Large majorities say they often hear cursing in the hallways at their schools. More than a third say there’s a serious fight at least once a month. Barely one in five says most classmates treat teachers with respect.
Topping it off, teachers face litigation-tinged attitudes of contempt and second-guessing. Nearly eight in 10 say students are quick to remind them that they have rights and their parents can sue. Nearly half say that a parent has accused them of unfairly disciplining a child.
Yet it is here, in this unsettling milieu, that we expect teachers to teach to high standards and youngsters to obtain world-class academic skills. It is here that we expect students to absorb the habits of citizenship, cooperation, and empathy needed for a democratic, fair-minded, compassionate society. Would we expect a business to thrive in these circumstances? Could most of us do our jobs in the midst of distractions like these?
To be fair, schools have addressed outright dangers like drugs and guns. After Columbine and similar tragedies, school leaders quickly crafted policies to minimize the most devastating dangers to children. More than eight in 10 middle and high school teachers report that their schools have no-nonsense policies to deal with drugs and guns. In what some may see as a Pyrrhic victory, more than half of teachers say there is an armed police officer in their schools.
Getting far less attention and, I believe, taking a genuine toll on American education, are more mundane matters. In the new research, teachers complain about student lateness, cheating, insolence, and bullying. "It just amazes me," said one New Jersey teacher we interviewed. "The gum chewing ... the yawning aloud or putting their feet up on the desk. [It’s] like they didn’t know that was inappropriate." A Florida teacher said many of her students are well-behaved, but that a few repeatedly cause trouble: "It’s a low number ... but the effect is disproportionate. You can have one kid blow up a whole class." Another teacher pointed to "students that just terrorize other students, and we can’t get rid of them, and they know this." Another admitted: "Instruction becomes—I don’t want to say the minimal piece, but often it does become that."
And there’s the rub. For teachers, discipline problems are not a minor irritation. They have consequences. An astonishing 97 percent of teachers—as high a number as I have ever seen in polling—say good student discipline is a prerequisite for a successful school. Nearly eight in 10 say they could teach more effectively if they didn’t have to spend so much time dealing with disruptive students. More than four in 10 say they spend more time keeping order in the classroom than teaching.
Given these numbers, I have often wondered why education’s top echelons don’t invest more time and energy understanding why discipline problems arise, which policies work best, and what schools, teachers, parents, and others need to do to improve the situation. Leaders in academia, business, government, and foundations have invested money and formed task forces to address other important topics. In fact, it’s easy to lose track of the dozens of reports, evaluations, and symposia devoted to standards, teacher quality, testing, school choice, school leadership, bilingual education, special education, reading instruction, and school finance. Yet discipline seems to be the ugly duckling of high-level education debate.
I am not sure why the problem doesn’t rise higher on the national education agenda, but the comments I get when I present Public Agenda research to leadership groups offer some clues.
Some top educators seem concerned that "more discipline" means a lurch backward to soul-crushing schools where children cower before adults and silence is the rule. But that’s not what teachers and parents have in mind. Both say that sparking a child’s curiosity and engendering a love of learning are absolutely essential elements of good schooling. For teachers and parents, better discipline simply means a little more order, fewer disruptions, more student cooperation and student effort, and perhaps a little more courtesy all round. It doesn’t seem too much to ask.
Others worry that the focus on repeat school troublemakers means that Americans are ready to abandon these youngsters as lost causes. This is an important concern, but it’s not the message we get from opinion research. Most Americans believe that nearly all youngsters can be helped, even if they have veered seriously off course as teenagers. Three-quarters say that given enough adult attention, just about all kids can learn and succeed in school. Only a handful believe most troubled teenagers "are beyond the point where they can be helped."
Some complain that teachers and parents aren’t shouldering their share of the blame. Shifting blame is a common human phenomenon, and teachers and parents are as capable of it as anyone else. But our research suggests a more subtle picture. Most teachers admit newer colleagues aren’t prepared to handle rambunctious classrooms; over half say teachers are sometimes soft on discipline for fear they won’t get support. Parents are also surprisingly willing to acknowledge limitations. Just a third say they have succeeded in teaching their own children self-control and self-discipline. Just half claim success teaching their children to do their best in school.
Another concern is that teachers and parents, for all their complaints, aren’t willing to follow through with tough choices. It’s not an unreasonable concern. Americans complain about the federal deficit, for example, but reject most realistic solutions. But on this issue, healthy majorities of parents and teachers are open to a wide range of ideas. Enforcing small rules to alter school climate—the so-called "broken windows" approach—gets a thumbs-up, as do special schools and programs for troubled kids, holding parents more accountable, improving teacher preparation, and reducing incentives for parents to sue. And these are just "for instances." The real message is that teachers and parents are open to all sorts of approaches.
There are of course some who don’t consider student discipline a significant issue in its own right. Most professors of education (61 percent) say that teachers who encounter discipline problems are just failing to make lessons sufficiently engaging. Not surprisingly, given their analysis, the professors give the issue a lower priority. While more than eight in 10 say it is absolutely essential for teachers to be lifelong learners, barely four in 10 place handling discipline in the classroom in the "absolutely essential" category.
To me, it’s odd that student discipline isn’t considered a vital, intellectually challenging subject. Isn’t the fact that teachers say they are losing significant teaching time a major problem? We are supposed to be raising academic standards. Isn’t finding effective ways to help children develop maturity and self-control worthy of analysis at the highest level? Most parents would certainly like some tips. Isn’t finding better ways to help youngsters who don’t thrive in traditional settings an intellectual priority of the first order?
The Washington Post’s Jay Mathews, who wrote an article about the "Teaching Interrupted" report, had the good grace to admit that he himself couldn’t handle the discipline problems teachers often face. I wonder how many top researchers, policymakers, and opinion leaders in education could. But all are capable of taking the issue more seriously. They could invest more significant research, analysis, and deliberation on the problem. It’s not a trivial issue. It is hurting our children and our schools.










Send the disruptive students to the office, don't even waste class time with them.
Let the administrators do their job and you the teacher do yours.
Everyday send them to the office if that's what it takes to keep order and I'm sick of hearing we can't do that.
Nobody wants to do their job now days, just pass the blame back to the parents.
Put cameras in the class room and record the day everyday, if parents and their lawyer complain about little Johnny just say let's reveiw the tape.
The teachers union is large enough they could fight the aclu over privacy issues if they really wanted to get control of this problem.
You always want parents to shoulder their responability ,except when it comes to discipline of their kids,then it's you can't spank that baby you may hurt his feelings..
Why doesn't "little johnny" come to school with the knowledge that it is inappropriate to talk back to adults? Put his feet on the desk? Disrupt class in the first place? Its not that we WANT to put blame on the parents but that is where it belongs. How to behave appropriately is not something that need or should be taught in school it should be learned at home.
administrators WILL NOT do the discipline, they send the students back to class, unpunished
At my school we received information about how to handle disruptive students, our administration specifically said, "We are not to send a child to the office unless another student or adult has be physically harmed by the student in question. Teachers are responsible for dealing with ALL forms of behavior in the class. If a student is continually disruptive during class they may not be sent to the office until the teacher has established contact with a parent or guardian". ESSENTIALLY this means we are wasting our CLASSTIME and valuable instruction time for students who are misbehaving. We are not allowed to put the child in the hall outside the classroom instead we must use the time we have to deal with the situation appropriately. Sometimes we have teacher's assistants who can take the problem into the corner of the classroom or even sneak them out in the hall because they can supervise them there.
In the course of my ten years of teaching in various settings ranging from poor URBAN schools, to Rural podunk areas, to established wealthy suburban areas and posh private schools I have personally encountered:
1. been shoved against lockers in the hallway during my morning hall duty.
2. been placed in a headlock by a student much larger than me.
3. had a student threaten me and tell me he was going to rape me and there was nothing I could do about it because I would get fired if I put my hands on him- little did he know that I didn't value my job more than my life ;)D
4. saw a group of angry middle schools flip another colleague's car over in the parking lot because they didn't like the fact she had given them detentions.
5. been bit, scratched, punched by several special ed inclusion students on several occassions, but they are "untouchable" when it comes to discpline because they "special". One student grabbed my arm and dug his nails in my flesh and pulled down until I was bleeding.
7. had chairs thrown at me on numerous occassions by severely emotionally disturbed children who were deemed "safe" enough to be mainstreamed into "specials".
8. saw a student on the way back from the bathroom, kick a 6th grade door shut so hard it removed two fingers of a 6th grader that was standing in the doorway...and the student didn't even get a "detention" because he was a "severely" emotionally disturbed child so this behavior was "normal" and the school was lucky that the student who was hurt, came from non-english speaking family whose "greencard" was in question.
9. had a student walking in the hall attempt to launch a rock at me while I was inside a class display case cleaning it, luckily there was a teachers aide right there and the principal who pretty much tackled the child to the ground (this is elementary school).
shall I oontinue or do you all get the point?
I for one don't understand what the heck the ADMINISTATION with their big paychecks do anymore, but one thing is for sure, they want nothing to do with discipline procedures.
All the schools I have worked have one thing in common, they adopted the silly PBIS system which is a total joke and has become a crutch to allow teachers to "bribe" their students with behavior problems into making the right choices. "Oh little Johnny, if you are able to keep quiet for the next five minutes the teacher will give you three bonus behavior bucks."
Of course my personal favorite in regards to PBIS is when a student held a door open for me and I said, "wow, what a gentleman you are and what wonderful manners you have!!" And he snaps back, "Yeah, so? Wheres my Bonus Behavior Bucks?" This program sets our children up for failure. "If you punish a child for being naughty, and reward him for being good, he will do right merely for the sake of the reward; and when he goes into the world and finds that goodness is not always rewarded nor wickedness always punished, he will grow into a man who things about how he may get on in the world, and does right or wrong according as he finds advantage to himself."-Immanuel Kant
Our school has young, incompetent administrators and now the ex basketball coach is the supt. They use PBIS to give rewards of pop at lunch and kids can listen to their Ipods, Fund raisers are instituted as a way for the adminitrators to get money for their own pet projects and the youngest, prettiest (and usually dumbest) teachers are by default in charge. Most of the older, more experienced teachers are retiring early to get away but a few of us can't afford to retire just yet. What a joke PBIS is. It was invented to make money by the originators.
Sounds like the people wherever the posters are from have a terrible misconception of what PBS/PBIS is about. ED students can be disciplined both in terms of day to day stuff and school removal (suspension and expulsion). The difference is tha due process must be followed including what is called a "manifestation determination". Unfortunately wherever you are, the powers that be seem not to understand that....Also, much of the behavior described in the long post are illegal and could have been referred to the appropriate authorities (i.e. the police), quite independent of some wrong-headed school administrator.
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